PoolTogether

V3 to V4 PT tickets migration

Starting a new forum thread to capture community inputs and understand feasibility from a technical perspective to help migrate PT tickets from v3 to v4 with minimal gas costs to existing user cohorts (small fish, medium fish and whales). Note: Full credit to @underthesea (and others) for ideating on this topic and doing additional analysis on address counts/deposit totals to plan this out in detail.

Proposed methodology:

  • Users send v3 PT tickets to an onchain ETH address (controlled by a multi-sig)
  • Batch all tickets and transfer them to v4 PT tickets
  • Send them back to same address (but on polygon network)
    This is very similar to @Oops did recently with collab-land bridging, but at a bigger scale

Implementation methodology:

  • Check if this can be programmatically done by PT Inc team.
  • If not, it can be a community led initiative, with a multi-sig and oversight in place

User groups

  • For small fish (0 - 500): This is not worth the effort. They will continue to win prizes in v3, and as a good-will gesture, we can delegate v4 tickets to some of these addresses (as outlined by Leighton in today’s call)

  • Medium fish (500 - 10k): This is group that will fully benefit from this approach. These are users who cannot leave their funds on v3 (for perpetuity), and will lose ~10% of funds in gas costs, if we don’t extend the right help.

  • Whale (10k+): These are likely experienced defi users, who are used to paying high gas costs. It also becomes risky for individuals and multi-sig address to receive high amount of funds (say a million dollars). So this group is either NOT included in this effort, or added as a Phase 2 if things go well with this approach.

Risk disclaimers/ other considerations

  • We will start with DAI and USDC PT tickets for migration efforts. And later expand to other protocols (COMP, Sushi etc)
  • We will make it clear that this is a community led effort (and voluntary), without any guarantees. Users can use this functionality per their individual risk appetite
  • Pool Together will pay for gas costs for batching and sending them back on polygon network out of treasury funds
  • Timeline - Sometime in Q4-2021. This effort is not gated on v4 launch

Open questions

  • @Brendan - Is something like this possible from a programmatic perspective?

  • If we do this manually using a new multi-sig address, will community be supportive of this initiative?

2 Likes

It’s a good initiative. Having a user migration plan from V3 to V4 is important especially for small fish. In case of finding many technical barriers to implement this idea, a small aidrop for these users compensating the estimated costs of manual migration can be a good alternative. And delegates responsibility for this movement to each individual user.

For small fish (say with 10 tickets) - cost of migration > ticket value. So the incentive is they get to win in v3 and also v4 (using delegated tickets, or free airdropped tickets from treasury).

We will definitely give this group the highest priority, but outlined migration approach of batch transfers is not aimed at this user cohort. Hope that helps

Thanks for expanding the discussion to the forum @tanman

We have a thread on Discord where we have discussed options for migration. If anyone wants to come hash out some ideas please do!

These tables represent the distributions of deposits for the USDC and DAI prize pool on mainnet. This snapshot is from before the community call where we had the first serious discussion of a migration.

Here are the gas costs of V3 tickets:

Action Approximate Gas Used Gas cost at $3500 / 80 gwei
transfer 280k $80 USD
withdrawFrom 400k $112 USD

You can see that even a simple transfer costs a significant amount of gas. The transfer cost essentially becomes the “dust floor”, in the sense that any value less than $80 is now dust.

For medium fish 500-10k, it’s still worth withdrawing their funds. It’s the small fish who are severely impacted by gas costs relative to their deposit size. The data in your table shows there are ~800 holders with less than 100 USDC.

The multi-sig approach you’ve outlined would be a ton of work. Additionally, addresses that are smart contract wallets could not receive funds on Polygon. I don’t think it’s practical.

Instead, rather than burning money on gas I think we should leave the funds in V3. If anything, perhaps we can have a long-term member benefit program. Polygon is a chain for those who are securing less funds and pay less transfer fees. I would suggest a “Small Holder Rewards Program” on Polygon: we create an airdrop on Polygon for users with < 100 USDC. They are able to claim rewards on Polygon equivalent to their deposit on Ethereum.

Based on the provided data, total deposits for players with < 100 USDC amount to $32,000 USD. This is by far the cheapest option.

5 Likes

Thanks Brendan.

Gas fees
Agreed, with a $80 estimate, my proposed solution does not make any sense.

Small Fish
For small holder rewards, $32k worth of funds is just on USDC, there’s more than $95k worth of funds on DAI…and other small holders on other protocols. So 1:1 airdrop does not seem a viable strategy.

There are ~4000 addresses with a <$100 deposit on DAI + USDC. We can airdrop 3 v4 tickets to each address costing us $12k + negligible gas on polygon. This will act as a nice gesture and also an advertising idea for launch.

Medium Fish
Great suggestion. We as a community need to think through some long-term member benefit program. I don’t have any ideas on what this mean or how to incentivize users left on v3…but we can put more thought around it.

Summary: Ideas suggested in my initial post do not seem to work anymore. I’d encourage community to brainstorm and think of any other innovative ideas on this topic.

2 Likes

In addition to the tickets, how would you feel about a POOL token rebate? Similar to balancers rebate [Proposal] Balancer Exchange Gas Reimbursement - Proposals - Balancer

I’d rather give tickets than POOL. POOL is undervalued and shouldn’t be given away while it’s so cheap.

3 Likes

Can we create a new pool on V3 polygon or V4 (or both) where half the interest generated goes to a one winner prize and the other half goes to a wallet controlled by the protocol/multisig (I’m early in the whole protocol control terminology so pardon my ignorance) - That wallet essentially saves up until it hits the aforementioned number of 100k or whatever number it would take to migrate the funds. This would take a few months but this essentially engages the community to aid in the migration with the no loss concept that PoolTogether is built on.

1 Like